Talk about TDC's story here

Just in case some of you didn't get the alert from BoxNet...my second draft is in the second draft folder and ready for review.

Thanks!!

I started reading the first draft before you posted the second one, so my notes will just be on the first draft. Sorry about that. I'll get notes on your second draft to you soon.

My main note is that you switch POVs too many times in your chapter. You've set your chapter up with a 3rd-person-limited voice centering around Nik. However, there are a number of times where you switch to Conroy's POV, meaning you get inside his head. This can be jarring for readers. Stick to what Nik thinks and observes. It'll make your chapter stronger and more focused.

(I've also emailed you some minor suggestions in your first draft).

Okay, I just finished reading the second draft, and many of my notes still apply. I suggest keeping the POV limited to Nik. DG does a very strong job of keeping his chapter tight and focused. Going into Conroy's head is jarring and breaks the flow of the chapter.

I think that the rebels' take on the world pre-Vanishing is too concrete, like that history is still fresh in people's minds. I think pre-Vanishing history should read like legend or myth. For example, while the Trojan War is believed to have actually happened, it is remembered as myth populated by gods. Pre-Vanishing history, I think, should be legendary (not in the Barney Stinson from "How I Met Your Mother" way). It should be filled with heroes and legendary acts and failures on a grand scale. It should be dominated by the popular belief that Rachnea had something to do with the Moon's disappearance -- so giant spiders aren't out of the question.

OR people just shouldn't be aware of the past history at all. The Apes in Planet of the Apes weren't aware of Earth's past history. I mean, how many people today can name even one historical figure from the year 1000 AD? Besides, didn't the EMP pulse wipe out all electronic data? How would people even remember there being a President Lucas Davison? History would be oral for generations and would change from telling to telling until this history became myth.

Also, I think it's unnecessary to link the chapter to DG's prologue. At times it feels forced and has me asking tons of questions, like "How did the Alliance detect DG's crew but not the monkeys, especially when DG's crew didn't want to be found yet the monkeys were flying like monkeys?" Things feel cluttered and I'm worried that people will start stepping on each other's toes if we don't keep each other's stories straight and leave people room to explore.

I think if you want to give the reader a strong first impression of Nik, send her on a mission against the Alliance. Having her chase two insubordinate pilots seems too small a job for her. Have her show off her keen mind for strategy and her strong sense of bravery. Have her do something heroic while showing why the rebels despise the Alliance. Have her protect a rebel stronghold under attack. Have her raid an Alliance supply line. Have her rescue her two monkeys from an Alliance detention facility.

Don't worry about referencing DG's story. Focus on Nik and the rebels and why they are who they are.

Thanks Eugene! I really, and always do, relish in your very intricate care for comments on my work! I know you have taken much time on it, and I am grateful!

I want to direct everyone first, to the end section of my draft tiled: MORE TO COME and inparticular numbers 2 and 3 listed there.

There you should take note of whats coming next. I am not through with my story and have just begun to set the reader up for a rich tale which involves Nik as a key character in the history of Earth. I have discussed this before, but you might have missed it...that Nik is actually a decendant of President Davison. She holds not just a myth, but the real story of anciant Earth and those who are with her believe in her lineage, not that what happened 1000 years ago is legend, but these dedicated few believe it as fact. It is based on her knowledge along with some actual "relics" she has in her possesion, that only her Older Brother ( now dead ) and Mraz Conroy has ever seen in person. She HAS to tie in with DG's prologue because she ALSO is going after THE BOOK...she has intel that the reader isn't aware of just yet...it will come as the story unfolds, so I beg you to have patience with me.

Nik is not just a Resistance Fighter, she IS the Resistance!

I also am inside Conroy's head too because I intend to go into much detail later over the relationship between he and Nik...he is in his early forties and was her brother's best friend and is now a mentor, protector, guide in her present life. No romance, more a brother-sister relationship. Bare with me as I use this first part of my story as a set up for the rest.

As far as A.W.O.L. is concerned, it is official military slang which stands for:
A bsent
W ithout
O fficial
L eave

I also would like to let everyone know that Nik and her fighters use a special kind of slang which is based on a real military slang called Grande Amee Slang and was used by troops during the Napoleonic Wars. I wanted something that sounded futuristic yet believable ( much like the chinese slang used in FireFly).

I am going to make changes per your suggestions and will send you an email that goes into more detail, Eugene. Thanks so very much!

I will post that email to everyone too! We must all stay in the loop, so that no one is left scratching their head.

I hope to have an even tighter more detailed draft up before the week is out! I am busy trying to promote the G10 Writer's website today! I am hot on getting as much exposure or pre-exposure as possible.

There is no greater gift than the written word ~ S McMurray ~

Sheri (TDC)

I am looking forward to other's comments as well!

G10 Writers Do It In Chapters!!

Hi TDC, could you tell us why Nik is after the book? How would she know about it? And what importance does it hold for her? I'm not sure why she would need it if she and her followers already know (and have proof) that she's descended from the President.

Also, I feel like it's more interesting if Nik discovers that she's related to the President. The story lacks a buildup if she already knows. Look at Luke Skywalker and Arthur Pendragon. Their stories work so well because they discover their destiny and must make a choice whether to fulfill it. They live the Hero's Journey. Imagine if Luke already knew he was the son of the most notorious Jedi who had ever lived. Imagine if Arthur already knew he was the crown prince of England.

I also think that if Nik IS the resistance then she wouldn't be flying after pilots who've gone AWOL (which I corrected in your draft not because I didn't know what it was but because you misspelled it). She would be too important to do such work. As the leader, she would send someone under her.

And I don't think she should be the leader of the resistance. My reasoning is that it makes the story less interesting. The main character should have to triumph over adversity, and to make her the leader gives her a leg up. There's a reason why Luke started as a farm boy and why Arthur was a put-upon younger brother from a put-upon family. If you're setting her up as the heroine of the novel, then she shouldn't already start at the top. She needs to become the resistance; she shouldn't already be the resistance. That should be her hero's journey -- her realization that she IS the resistance, her embracing her destiny.

I think Nik should start as a well-respected grunt soldier in the resistance who rises to the occasion when no one else does. Look at the Star Trek trailer. Kirk starts out as some punk kid who gets into fights at bars. When the Enterprise loses its captain, Kirk steps up and of course saves the day. But nothing is easy for him, nothing is handed to him. He has to earn it.

Give Nik adversity in the resistance. There needs to be people who don't like her or have faith in her for whatever reasons. Make her work hard. Force her to make sacrifices. Let her make mistakes. Then have her overcome all of this by the end.

Lastly, I'm not opposed to you getting into Conroy's head, but his POV shouldn't be interrupting Nik's. The part of your chapter that you sent out is Nik's part of the chapter. Give Conroy his own section. Take a look at DG's prologue. The reader never leaves Harrison's head. When Steve switches POV in his chapter, he places a break in the narrative to show the reader that the scene, time, and POV have changed. The POVs in his scenes are always consistent. You need to do the same. Stick to Nik in the opening scene. In the next scene focus on Conroy and what he thinks about what is going on. Switching POVs back and forth mid-scene is distracting for the reader and breaks the rhythm of your narrative.

I'm not trying to tear down your chapter, TDC. I'm trying to get you to see how to best take advantage of the strengths that you have in your characters and setup. I'm not suggesting that you copy Star Wars or King Arthur or Star Trek. I want you to look at how they build the story up to a crescendo. There are reasons why their main characters start out small -- it allows them to become bigger than life at the end. That's Nik's story.

OK, Eugene, and everyone who has read the second draft here.

Nik's story rides along the fringe of DG's prologue and as this is the dawn of the eve where the Moon comes back into view, we must take the reader back. So, what is going to happen is that Nik's story is going to go back in time to the beginning when she was 10 years old and living at home with her Mom and older brother. Her Dad was a pilot and her older brother is one as well. Her Dad has been gone a couple years ( I have to decide if he dies in battle, a crash, of natural causes, whatever) and the three of them are living on limited income. They haven't got much, but they're happy. Mraz Conroy is her older brother's best friend, confidant, and fellow airman.

When she's about age 12 all this changes...her mother ( I haven't figured this part out yet, but I will) is taken out of the picture and her older brother dies in a crash, at the same time the resistance is in full swing, and ( I haven't pinned this down yet either, but I'm working on it ) because she is left alone -Conroy takes her under his wing - what she doesn't know yet, is he's protecting her becuase he knows who she is, but she doesn't at this point. It takes years ( which I will elaborate on in story form) to get where she is when we first meet her in the beginning( see the first part of my story near the beginning where she touches on being 32, in the underground for 20 years already, 10 training grunts )..Comroy knows who she is because her older brother knew the story from their Mom and Father. She was obviously too young to know at age ten or twelve, but was about to be told when she lost her Mother and older brother. Conroy took over "training" not so much because she'd be an orphan, but because he was the only one left who knew her true identtity ( that alone could have gotten her killed if the info fell into the wrong hands, hense she had to go underground) and could protect and raise her up in the direction she was destined to take.

I have lots more rolling around in my head, but you must allow me to get it on paper [computer] and post it to boxnet...then go over it another time, and tell me I'm off, ok? heh...

I will try correcting the POV issue - Promise...but don't mess with the "history of" and "difficulties for" my main character, 'cause I promise , it's there!! Just let me write about it. The first part is there to MAKE you the reader, ASK WHY!! So, I suppose, in that sense, I'm doing my job.

I also will drop hints as to why she is aware of some sort of secret "book", but she and Conroy aren't even sure what it is or if it even exists, as it is all wrapped up/shrouded in Legand...kind of like BSG when some believe there is an EARTH out there somewhere, while others think they're crazy for believing there is this mythical planet called EARTH. The same for THE BOOK ( probably known by a different name, which I am developing a name for) . All believe it is a myth, while Nik and Conroy, believe there is something to it and that it was once housed in the ancient capital city, which now lies in ruins. And not sure what's in it, but only that it's secrets hold the way to freedom.

I hope this helps a bit. Please, as I have asked...don't get the cart before the horse here...give me time to tell my story...be patient...

Thanks!

I'm moving the discussion TDC and I had over email to the appropriate forum. Here's what we talked about:

TDC wrote:

Hi Eugene, I posted a more in depth reply on my KvP spot for comments about our stories ( Sheri's Story Thread)...but, here's this in ref. to your comments doc you sent me: 1) You asked to describe "hearing" the static. And I had thought of that as well, but have no idea what words to use to describe static without sounding redundant. Could you suggest some? 2) I will change the 'snide remark comment' concerning the unfamiliar Starship they saw to something else, thanks! 3) Nik is NOT AWE'd - just surprised - at seeing a new starship she's unfamiliar with. Nik is tough and hardened. She doesn't scare and there isn't much she hasn't already seen in her troubled sometimes brutal life. She doesn't "awe" easiliy. Her effort to rescue her green troopers is MUCH MORE important to her than seeing this new, although inspiring, ship. Although she is strict with her grunts, they remain as close, in her mind, as family. 4) I WANT her code name to be over the top. Her code as "Ovam" fits her much better than anything else. "Mother" would sound too James Bond-ish and sounds A) too tame for her, and B) is too elderly sounding. After all, she is just barely 10 to 15 years older than most of those she's training. 5) I will change out the POV's and take it in Nik's direction, you are right, Thanks! 6) As explained a bit on the KvP forum under Sheri's Story: I wanted to set up a base for Conroy's relationship to Nik in the beginning and am planning to go into much more detail as the story rounds out in future drafts, so hang in there with me. 7) I will change the word "cloaked" to something that refers to "- as not to be varified," thanks! Will change "barked Nik" to something else, Thanks! 9-10) Corrected, "he" to "they"...Thanks! 11-12 ) You are correct. Read it more carefully - the rebels DON'T believe in Rachenea...the place they are secretly hiding is a place that those who DO BELIEVE would never goto because it is a site the Church will 'eliminate' eventually...no Rach loving believer would be caught dead there..that's why it is the perfect place to hide. 13-15 ) I have plans for this story, be patient and keep reading the corrected, extended drafts. There is a very good reason that the people in the underground dream of a past government, even though it may be concieved as a myth to some, just knowing there was a Goverment like Davison's at some point in Earth's ancient history/legend/lore gives people a dream a hope of a better tomorrow...something to believe in and therefore fight for.

Here was my response:

esr960 wrote:

Sheri, Thanks for sharing your thoughts in this email and on the forum. You're right -- I have jumped the gun and made a bunch of assumptions about your story. For that, I apologize. Based on the way the others have set up their stories and because Whig had been advocating stories starting right when the moon disappears, I assumed -- yes, yes, me making an ass of myself -- that we weren't going to be using flashbacks in the book. My bad. Which leads me to my main point ... we, as a team of writers, should not be holding back on the secrets and surprises in our stories. We do that at the peril of everybody's chapters. I'm not pointing fingers since I'm guilty as charged. I've been saying since The Artifact that we should be sharing everything about our stories even before we start writing, especially the way our stories end. This is even more important with this project because all the chapters are dependent on one another. I understand wanting not to show your hand to the readers. But we are not the readers. We are the writers of the book. We shouldn't be surprised by what everyone else is up to. We should all be in sync -- mainly so we don't step on each others' toes. Yes, I admit I've been holding Sally up, but I will rectify that very soon. Sheri, I like your thoughts on your story and what you intend to do. However, we need to know what you intend to do with the President's Journal. From what I've gathered from DG, the journal just outlines what happens after the Moon disappears from the POV of the President of the US. Tell us what secret in the journal is so important that the future of the Resistance depends on it. We need to know this because it seriously effects CV and DG's storylines (and, in fact, the concluding section of the book). If the Journal is important to the Resistance, then it's important to the Alliance. And the Alliance would be doing all it can to keep the Resistance from getting the book. The other thing is that the Journal is now on the moon, which means your main character may have to go there and confront the crew of the Speedwell. If the journal is this important, then we as a group should figure out just what is in the journal ... is the Janus project mentioned in there? is the coverup of the Swiftsure? does the President name names? Let's open this up for discussion on the forum. Eugene

Here's TDC's followup:

TDC wrote:

Hi Eugene, I was thinking that because Nik and Mraz are the only ones who know for sure who she is, and that the "item" the book', the "secret message in a bottle" ( see 13-15 below) of legend contains something they are searching for. Because it is legend ( as I stated in my post ) it will be something ( I haven't decided what that 'something' is yet) they can pin their hope of a better government and a future of freedom on, but to tell you the truth, I don't KNOW WHAT that is yet. And another truth is, I DON'T HAVE an ending at this point. Perhaps it's because we are going to write sequels, so my ending is non-existant at worst and foggy as best. I am going to have to discuss two things with Don, and that is, what is Davison's background? Was he married? If so, who was she? How did he die? What is his history in the VM 'verse? I had asked him to elaborate on Davison a while back, but I believe that request got lost in the shuffle. Which is OK, as I know everyone is busy. There are no secrets I am keeping from the group and I am not holding back. What I have told you thus far is all I've got nailed down in my head. As I may have mentioned along the writing trail we've been traveling this last year, my stories are not that structured. I start writing and they pour out of me much like watching a movie. After they are 'down', I then tweak them, re-arrange them, add and subtract from them, etc. That probably causes most writers here to flinch in agony, but sorry, that's the TDC way. What would give some ( those who use structure ) writing cramps, is actually writer's heaven for me. Free-write is how I do it. I have blurry pools of story line rolling around in my mind, but I haven't got them to come into focus yet, when I do, I will write. I usually have them floating around at night when I go to sleep. Sometimes one pops into perfect light, and the next day I write like a mad woman. That's just how I have always written. I have been known to get up in the middle of the night, from a sound sleep, sneak into the bathroom ( so I do not wake my family) and write pages of prose or poetry that I cannot contain!! I am so ....weird that way! As for all this: esr960 wrote: "...we need to know what you intend to do with the President's Journal. From what I've gathered from DG, the journal just outlines what happens after the Moon disappears from the POV of the President of the US. Tell us what secret in the journal is so important that the future of the Resistance depends on it. We need to know this because it seriously effects CV and DG's storylines (and, in fact, the concluding section of the book). If the Journal is important to the Resistance, then it's important to the Alliance. And the Alliance would be doing all it can to keep the Resistance from getting the book. The other thing is that the Journal is now on the moon, which means your main character may have to go there and confront the crew of the Speedwell. If the journal is this important, then we as a group should figure out just what is in the journal ... is the Janus project mentioned in there? is the coverup of the Swiftsure? does the President name names?" I couldn't agree more that I need to know as well. But I have no idea who is writing what. Only what I have read on boxnet thus far. So anything anyone can share or email to me about there stories, if they have a structure and there have been discussions I haven't been included in, then I need that info, so as NOT to "step on anyone's toes" as you said. I also want my story to not HAVE to include other characters in this first book. Later on, I believe it would be cool if we could get our established characters to perhaps, cross one another's paths within the next couple of novels( sequels)..is that a good idea? I'm rambling again...sorry. But, at any rate, a discussion is a good idea. That said, I will go over to KvP now and see if anything has gotten started. Thanks Eugene for being so candid. Your input is much appreciated. Sheri ~ TDC

There's a lot of stuff here that is important to the book as a whole. TDC and I would appreciate other people's thoughts on the matter.

Here are some of my thoughts about the discussion:

1. I thought we had already decided to tell each other our stories ahead of time to avoid conflicts. I understand if something isn't known yet, we can't let everyone else know what it is. Also, things can obviously change. My ending changed slightly as I was writing it from what I had told the group it was going to be.

2. Sheri, DG replied to you about President Davison last week and said that he hadn't really laid out the details about him. The two of you should probably discuss a biography, unless he wants to leave it up to you to fill in.

3. If anyone is going to include the Rachnaeans in their stories (which I encourage, since it could be a connecting thread), we should probably discuss what's going to happen with them. I still have more to flesh out in my story and we don't want them to conflict with one another.

Thanks CV! I thought that is what DG said, but wasn't sure. So when he returns, I would love to get with him and see if our ideas about a possible back ground for Pres Davison and his link to Nik might be. Sounds awesome!

The only thing I had planned to mention about the Church of Rach' is just that a few of the followers in the underground might harbor emotional ties to it, as most were originally brought up to believe in it, and that belief alone will cause a conflict between some of the 'troops.' I wasn't planning on having any true Religious leaders mixing with or anyone from the underground movement visiting a Temple, etc...so as not to have to worry about what you are writing. That's your baby. If I do reach a point where I feel any character of mine might want or need to actually converse/mingle with a say temple Priestess or goto the Temple or the Capital City, etc... I will be SURE TO CONTACT you and we can have some fun discussing if that might be a good idea.

Promise!

I thought of a suggestion that may or may not work for you. What if Nik's father knew he was the descendant of Davison, but kept it a secret because he knew the danger his family would be in if anyone found out? Maybe he left behind an heirloom that Nik finds that proves they're his descendants.

The new section where Nik recites the Davisonian started out cool because it began from the POV of the cadets. (This is incredibly brave because the POV comes from a group and not an individual). We get to see how everyone else sees Nik ... as this foreboding and charismatic leader. But then the POV shifts to Nik and stays with her the entire time ... which makes the scene boring because there's no action and it's all exposition explaining in broad philosophical terms why the Resistance is fighting the Alliance and the Church. I really want to see why the Resistance is good and the Alliance and the Church are not. In Star Wars ep 4, there is hardly talk about the Republic and the Jedi and how glorious it used to be. We do see, however, the Empire hijack a diplomatic ship and destroy a planet. I want to you to show us why the Alliance are such bad guys. Otherwise, it's just talk. Remember: actions speak louder than words.

I still have issues with Nik being the "beacon of hope" right at the top of the story. I think she should become the beacon of hope. That should be her arc, her journey, her discovery. Also, I'm not sure about Nik being part alien. Didn't we agree not to have aliens in the book?