| | |
| Author | Message |
|---|
thedreamcontinued

Posts: 752 Join date: 2008-07-24 Age: 41 Location: The Land of Pigs and Corn
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Fri May 15, 2009 10:52 am | |
| Thanks Eugene. Your eye for detail is great. I am wanting the reader to gleen the idea of who the Church is and what the EA is doing with them from the other stories ( DG's and CV's)...I was thinking the reader would have already read their's and if I keep going on and on it would just re-hash what they have already found. I also had spoken with DG about the book. Of it not just having something in it that Harrison wants but also something he doesn't even know it has, and that is mention of Davison's wife. We had talked about Nik having more than just a blood line, but some other reason she wants to get into the old Capital Office or city too. And as far as you not really understanding why Nik is having the dreams and being confused, that is a good thing, as that is just what I want the reader to feel. I want the reader to feel as confused inside as Nik is feeling. You are being primed for the rest of the story, as I am NOT DONE yet, but only about two thirds through it. I also had put that the legend of Davison was handed down orally, not through books. We had also discussed at the meeting before this last one, that Davison has been gone so long, that his life has morphed more into legend and there are things about him that are in the consciousness of the public that may not be exact, just as the legen dof Robin Hood and other long dead heros of old in our own lore today. But, there are things that Mraz knows and is about to tell Nik that are very true and that is where the next part of the story is going to go. DG, have you read the end notes to my last draft yet? I would like your ideas about what to do with Nik's connection to Davison and do you think the idea that his wife was really from another planet ( not known at all to any human except his descendants) and that the mention of this secret also lies within the pages of the book? That the reason Nik is having the so-called "seizuers" is not that she is ill, in human undersanding, but that her alien blood is being awakened so do something awesome for human kind? |
|  | | esr960

Posts: 429 Join date: 2008-07-24 Location: Windy City
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Fri May 15, 2009 2:03 pm | |
| | thedreamcontinued wrote: | | I am wanting the reader to gleen the idea of who the Church is and what the EA is doing with them from the other stories ( DG's and CV's)...I was thinking the reader would have already read their's and if I keep going on and on it would just re-hash what they have already found. |
I think you're missing an opportunity here to add shading and color to what the Alliance and Church are all about. In DG and CV's stories we see the facade, the surface of the Alliance. They have the face of order and structure and stability. But you have the chance to dig beneath the surface and show us the dirt. It's like when the aliens in V peel their faces off to reveal their true reptilian faces. Besides, without showing this, your characters are given little motivation to do what they're doing. It's one thing to fight for an idea like democracy; it's another thing to fight because you're family was killed by tyranny.
| thedreamcontinued wrote: | | I also had spoken with DG about the book. Of it not just having something in it that Harrison wants but also something he doesn't even know it has, and that is mention of Davison's wife. We had talked about Nik having more than just a blood line, but some other reason she wants to get into the old Capital Office or city too. |
I think this is something we should discuss as a group since whatever is in the book effects everyone's chapters.
| thedreamcontinued wrote: | | And as far as you not really understanding why Nik is having the dreams and being confused, that is a good thing, as that is just what I want the reader to feel. I want the reader to feel as confused inside as Nik is feeling. You are being primed for the rest of the story, as I am NOT DONE yet, but only about two thirds through it. |
I'm coming from the POV of a co-writer. My confusion comes from the inconsistency of Nik's emotional state. I understand that you want to keep things mysterious for the reader. But things have to be consistently mysterious. With subsequent drafts, I'm sure things will work out. But I just wanted to point this out so you're aware of the inconsistency.
| thedreamcontinued wrote: | | I also had put that the legend of Davison was handed down orally, not through books. We had also discussed at the meeting before this last one, that Davison has been gone so long, that his life has morphed more into legend and there are things about him that are in the consciousness of the public that may not be exact, just as the legen dof Robin Hood and other long dead heros of old in our own lore today. But, there are things that Mraz knows and is about to tell Nik that are very true and that is where the next part of the story is going to go. |
I suggested Davison as legend awhile ago on this thread. I definitely know what your intentions are -- Davison as King Arthur. But this should not be taught in class. This is a legend that the Church definitely frowns down upon. And it should be a belief that can get you killed -- like the way the early Christians in Rome hid their beliefs for fear of being executed. It's a shared secret that followers are careful not to divulge. They have symbols like the fish and such to communicate to each other in the wide open. There should also be many Resistance members or sympathizers who live in plain view but don't disclose their beliefs. Maybe comparing the legend of Davison not to Robin Hood but to early Christianity can spark some interesting ideas.
| thedreamcontinued wrote: | | DG, have you read the end notes to my last draft yet? I would like your ideas about what to do with Nik's connection to Davison and do you think the idea that his wife was really from another planet ( not known at all to any human except his descendants) and that the mention of this secret also lies within the pages of the book? That the reason Nik is having the so-called "seizuers" is not that she is ill, in human undersanding, but that her alien blood is being awakened so do something awesome for human kind? |
Just my opinion, but I don't think Nik should be part alien. Her "powers" don't come from her blood but in her belief in herself. I hate to bring up Star Wars again but Luke's power truly comes from belief in himself. Jedi or not, if he didn't have faith in himself, Luke wouldn't have blown up the Death Star.
This is why I've been pushing you to have Nik make that journey from a soldier with self-doubt to a leader with confidence and faith in herself. It makes the journey more interesting if Nik has to push her way to the top instead of already being at the top (i.e., leader of the Resistance) at the beginning of the story.
All this stuff is in the DNA of your story. I'm just trying to get you to express the best of the ideas already there. |
|  | | esr960

Posts: 429 Join date: 2008-07-24 Location: Windy City
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Fri May 15, 2009 4:04 pm | |
| | whiggy wrote: | TDC It didn't hit me until after...are you creating Nik as an alien? I recall from past conversations, and emails, that there hasn't been any contact with aliens yet, so she would have to be human. Please let me know if we had changed that up in a conversation. Thanks! |
| thedreamcontinued wrote: | No, she is not an alien, per say, but she may have alien blood flowing through her viens...from a thousand years back. Which gives her the ability to see beyond herself. She doesn't know it yet, but Mraz ( her protector) does and he's about to tell her about her true lineage. Not just that she is of Davisonian heritage, which makes her the chosen leader by birthright, but that she has been set apart for an even greater purpose. I ran this by DG a while back, and it got lost in the shuffle. We had discussed Nik wanting the book Harrison now holds, as a sort of Talisman. Harrison needs it to read the true story as to what happened when the Moon disappeared, but Nik needs it because Davison has also penned notes on his wife and where her roots are really from. DG had made the suggestion that Nik needs the book for a reason that not even Harrison knows about and that's going to make the book even more important. He told me to write it and see what I came up with...so that's sort of where I'm at. Fiddling around with the plot line. I haven't heard back from DG yet as to whether that is a good course to follow...and as I just opened this I also sent around an email about my chapter. After reading and re-reading CV's new chapter ( which rocks!) I see that I must add even more to the beginnings of mine! To make it all make sense and flow with CV's and DG's time lines...so I am writing a more informative and blossomed beginning...and will try and get that new one in by tomorrow...monday at the latest. I have made comments on Eugene's observations on my chapter on the KvP forum for my chapter as well, so I would love for every one to go out there so we can all talk it up! All hail the Resistance! Down with Rachnaeism! (hee hee hee ) |
|
|  | | esr960

Posts: 429 Join date: 2008-07-24 Location: Windy City
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Fri May 15, 2009 4:20 pm | |
| | thedreamcontinued wrote: | | No, she is not an alien, per say, but she may have alien blood flowing through her viens...from a thousand years back. Which gives her the ability to see beyond herself. She doesn't know it yet, but Mraz ( her protector) does and he's about to tell her about her true lineage. Not just that she is of Davisonian heritage, which makes her the chosen leader by birthright, but that she has been set apart for an even greater purpose. |
Okay, you know my thoughts on the alien issue, so let me bring up something else. I don't think that being related to Davison should make Nik the leader by birthright. Sure, it makes her special. And undoubtedly it makes her a figure to rally the troops around. But making her leader by birthright goes up against what the Resistance is fighting for, namely, democratic rule. What you're implying by handing leadership to Nik by birthright is that the Resistance is fighting for the installation of a hopefully beneficent monarchy. Again, I want to see Nik earn the leadership role. Handing it to her, especially by birthright, is too easy.
| thedreamcontinued wrote: | | I ran this by DG a while back, and it got lost in the shuffle. We had discussed Nik wanting the book Harrison now holds, as a sort of Talisman. Harrison needs it to read the true story as to what happened when the Moon disappeared, but Nik needs it because Davison has also penned notes on his wife and where her roots are really from. DG had made the suggestion that Nik needs the book for a reason that not even Harrison knows about and that's going to make the book even more important. He told me to write it and see what I came up with...so that's sort of where I'm at. Fiddling around with the plot line. |
We, as a group, need to determine what's in the book because whatever is in there has huge ramifications for everybody's chapters. |
|  | | thedreamcontinued

Posts: 752 Join date: 2008-07-24 Age: 41 Location: The Land of Pigs and Corn
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Fri May 15, 2009 5:38 pm | |
| Oh man! If I change my train of story now, right in the middle of character developement, I might as well start all over, Eugene! Nik does NOT KNOW who she is yet. She is at the top by her OWN military prowess and merrit, not because she KNOWS who she is. Just like the reader, she has no idea that she is anything special at all. She will find out at the same time the reader does. And DG and I DID discuss this with the whole group at a meeting...I believe it was three meetings back...the night Whiggy was at the concert and DG was officiating the meeting that night. Perhaps, I don't remember, you were not there or late?? Not sure. |
|  | | thedreamcontinued

Posts: 752 Join date: 2008-07-24 Age: 41 Location: The Land of Pigs and Corn
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Fri May 15, 2009 5:39 pm | |
| I am in the process of adding much more to the beginning, and I was even before you sent me your comments. Lets see....okay, how about this: You guys let me re-write the beginning the way I see it...read it when it's all finished ( should take me the rest of the weekend) then I'll post it up on Boxnet...then you can pick it apart! Ha! |
|  | | thedreamcontinued

Posts: 752 Join date: 2008-07-24 Age: 41 Location: The Land of Pigs and Corn
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Fri May 15, 2009 6:39 pm | |
| Please refer back to CV's suggestion before today's discussion. And here also is what Whig sent me from an email dated today: "Good work, lady!"  I'm just foolin' around! I don't want any drama at all, guys...we'll get this character centered. I just have one thing to say...She is NOT a female Luke Skywalker, She is in NO WAY related to Kira Starbuck, Nik is a new and unique character placed in a new and unique story and that is what we want, right? Who wants people reading this story or any of it's characters and rolling their eyes and saying...oh that's just like so-in-so!? |
|  | | esr960

Posts: 429 Join date: 2008-07-24 Location: Windy City
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Fri May 15, 2009 7:16 pm | |
| | thedreamcontinued wrote: | | I just have one thing to say...She is NOT a female Luke Skywalker, She is in NO WAY related to Kira Starbuck, Nik is a new and unique character placed in a new and unique story and that is what we want, right? Who wants people reading this story or any of it's characters and rolling their eyes and saying...oh that's just like so-in-so!? |
You're right. I made these comparisons to key you in on the Hero's Journey. Every protagonist goes through this. I personally think that Nik's journey needs to be developed more. I know you're not done yet, but every Hero's Journey begins with a clear set up, and the set up of your last version was still finding its feet.
So, let's forget about all the suggestions I've previously made. But I want you to think about one thing: Who is Nik at the beginning of your story? I want you to show the reader who she is. Not what she thinks about. Not what ideals she upholds. Show us in the actions that she takes what kind of a person/woman/hero/human she is. Remember how Kirk and Spock were introduced in Star Trek. Within one scene each we knew exactly who they were and where they were in their lives and the obstacles that they face. Do that for Nik. And, trust me, after that, everything will come together. |
|  | | cvalin

Posts: 240 Join date: 2008-07-25 Age: 42 Location: Near Los Angeles
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Fri May 15, 2009 9:22 pm | |
| I haven't had a chance to read your new version, TDC, but since you're still writing and you said you've read mine, I wanted to let you know that I would be open to the attack on the airship at the end of my story be the resistance rather than Prescott's people. I didn't want to do that without discussing it with you and DG, but if it works with what you have going, it might be kind of a cool tie-in. |
|  | | thedreamcontinued

Posts: 752 Join date: 2008-07-24 Age: 41 Location: The Land of Pigs and Corn
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Fri May 15, 2009 10:10 pm | |
| Thanks guys! I really needed the direction. You are so right Eugene...I am working ( re-working) the beginning and I will most deffinately have Nik introduced to the reader and her motives for who and what she is! I will think about your suggestion as well CV...that is very generous of you and it would help tie a little link to your chapters too. A small weave in the tapistry that flows around or through each chapter is a plus! See you guys after I come up for air!!  |
|  | | cvalin

Posts: 240 Join date: 2008-07-25 Age: 42 Location: Near Los Angeles
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Sat May 16, 2009 9:02 pm | |
| I can't seem to open the newest version, which says it's WordPerfect (.wpd). It's weird because I've always been able to open your previous documents. |
|  | | cvalin

Posts: 240 Join date: 2008-07-25 Age: 42 Location: Near Los Angeles
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Sat May 16, 2009 10:41 pm | |
| Okay, Eugene sent me a .doc version, so I was able to open it. In addition to some of the things Eugene mentioned above about Nik, I have some notes about the relationship between the Church and the Eastern Alliance. A few weeks ago, you, DG, and I talked about this since we were all playing in the same sandbox, so to speak, and this is the way I understood it to be following our conversation (and DG can either back me up on this, or tell me I'm off base): The Eastern Alliance is the government that has a stranglehold on its people, and that is the institution that people view as being oppressive and evil. Most people see the Church of Rachnaea as a good thing, and believe that its influence within the government actually tempers its cruelty. What the people don't know is that the Church is actually behind most of the oppressiveness, and that the leaders of the Church have much more influence within the government than anyone expects. They also have a secret plan to take over everything that began with the sabotage of the FTL drive on the moon. One of the over-arching themes of our book, as far as I can remember, is that our characters are going to discover and fight against this plot. Now, your characters in the Resistance may know the truth about the Church being behind the curtain in all of this, but that is in no way clear in your story. As far as I can remember, you don't even mention the Eastern Alliance at any point (other than the scene from earlier with the ships). I think this can be fixed fairly simply by adding a few lines here and there, but I think that fixing it is crucial to our overall story. I'm not criticizing your writing in any way, because it's good. I just think it's really important that we clear this stuff up. -CV |
|  | | thedreamcontinued

Posts: 752 Join date: 2008-07-24 Age: 41 Location: The Land of Pigs and Corn
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Mon May 18, 2009 10:26 pm | |
|  Thanks CV...and you're absolutely right on! The Resistance does know what the over all "believing" population doesn't know. I agree all the way with fleshing it out more and expalining more of the story...and that's what I put on my end notes, as the story is not any where near done yet. I am researching and working up an even better beginning, planning on posting it as soon as I have it done. I was hoping today (Monday) but the fates didn't have it that way for me. Real world barged right in and stole most of my writing time today! I hope to have more before the meeting, but probably won't have it posted up before then. If I make it at all, as I am feeling kinda FLU-like tonight ! Yikkers!! |
|  | | thedreamcontinued

Posts: 752 Join date: 2008-07-24 Age: 41 Location: The Land of Pigs and Corn
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:23 am | |
| I know we have already spoke and discussed about our stories as of June first. But I just wanted to be sure that everyone knows mine is under the third draft file on BoxNet and the title now is THE RESISTANCE. This is the most recent and updated version of my story to date. I still have a ways to go to get this to a point where it's a good place to stop...as Sally...I just keep digging deeper and haven't reached a place in my mind that's a good place to jump off... Any comments are welcome! And DG and CV! Be sure to read it all the way through, as I believe it runs pretty much along the same time line as yours and if we are thinking about the interweaving approach, perhaps my story lines can be woven in there someplace. G10Ninja: What do you think in your ultimate wisdom? tee hee... |
|  | | thedreamcontinued

Posts: 752 Join date: 2008-07-24 Age: 41 Location: The Land of Pigs and Corn
 | Subject: Re: TDC's Story Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:48 am | |
| DG...I am wondering too about the "twins" scenerio. Perhaps my bad guy ( the double agent from The Church) might get his zeal to prove himself because he finds his true family is actually that twin? |
|  | | |
| Page 2 of 3 | Goto page : 1, 2, 3  |
| | Permissions of this forum: | You can reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |